I saw them cross the twilight of an age, The sun-eyed children of a marvellous dawn, The great creators with wide brows of calm, The massive barrier-breakers of the world
27/07/2008
clean hands
Immigration policy should be generous; it should be fair; it should be flexible. With such a policy we can turn to the world, and to our own past, with clean hands and a clear conscience.
John F. Kennedy - A Nation of Immigrants (1958)
Good quote. Do you live in Britain. Do you think maybe the context might be different here, given that the USA has for most of its history been a nation of immigrants?
I think the context applies almost everywhere, Britain and the Netherlands (i live in Amsterdam) have both become nations of immigrants. I think in the future this will apply for most countries and I see it as being the way forward to peace and the realization that we are all equal and one humanity. It starts with a fair immigration policy.
I think of a fair immigration policy meaning that people can choose where to live, most of all if they want to move to a country that supports their needs better or where they have a better quality of life this should be allowed. A better quality of life includes basic standards of living and healthcare.
Because on a deep level many people do not actually agree with the above, new people with different ciltures can provide valuable learning lessons and opportunities for individuals and groups to re-evaluate current opinions and deep rooted stigma's concerning culture, religion, racism, fundementalism and other ethics.
In a multi-cultural society there are clashes between groups but there is also a growing understanding and awareness, slowly, very slowly, we begin to realise that we are not that different from each other and that we are in fact the same, at the core. We are human.
I understand "equal" to be: not better or lesser on any level. If we do not in fact differ from each other (at the core) than we are "one" or in other words there is unity instead of seperation.
I realise that my views may be rather idealistic and maybe quite different from the reality many people are living. I see everyone contributing in some way to the greater good and unity be it in a negative or positive way.
I appreciate your idealism, and you shouldn't apologise for it. There is not enough of it about.
A worry I have, though, is what if the open hearted, welcoming attitude, allied to a desire to learn from different cultures, which you would like the native populations of Europe to show towards Immigrants from outside of Europe (I am presuming this is what you allude to most centrally); what if this is not shared by those immigrants who want to move to Europe. What then? Shouldnt this open mindedness and desire to learn from the other be reciprocated by them to?
Do you feel that many of the nations of the world, in Asia and the Middle East, for example, are similarly willing to learn from immigrants in their midst? Do you believe, moreover, that Asians and Middle Eastern people are not themselves racist? Or is it only white people who are racist?
I still don't entirely understand what you mean by 'equal'. Do you mean in fact that there is a 'sameness of identity' between the ethnic groups of the world? I feel that many peoples in Asia and the Middle east, not only in Europe and the rest of the world would have difficulties with this, as it would undercut that cultural and ethnic distinctiveness which many non-white peoples take pride in as a source and basis of social cohesion and identity. Isnt there a danger that talk of equality and 'oneness' can potentially be merely an attempt to impose a kind of abstract rootless homelessness upon the families of the world?..such that nobody really knows who they are any longer? And the twin Gods of money and bureacratic centralism, and they alone, dictate.
Nevertheless I share your desires for world peace and harmony and for 'oneness' in that sense. But I do not see that oneness cannot contain diversity and ethnic, cultural distinctiveness within it. And Im not talking about 'multicultarism', which as an ideology is an attempt rather, as I see it, I feel, to dilute and water down, in the name of an abstraction, such localised notions of cultural identity.
Thankyou once again for you comment and wise words.
Often there is no conscious desire to learn, most people do not migrate with a conscious will to gain knowledge or open-mindedness but that does not mean that it doesn't naturally happen. The understanding and awareness is almost 'forced upon us' in the face of change. It will all come to pass because of the mixing of culture and ethnic groups, it's just a matter of time, we can easlily lose sight of the big picture because of a present struggle.
You say: "Isnt there a danger that talk of equality and 'oneness' can potentially be merely an attempt to impose a kind of abstract rootless homelessness upon the families of the world?..such that nobody really knows who they are any longer? And the twin Gods of money and bureacratic centralism, and they alone, dictate."
Isn't this already the case?
I think we are moving towards a global consciousness wherein we notice that borders do not really exist, they are only in our heads. They are man-made lines between countries and races, there will always be cultural differences based on climate conditions, history, mythology etc, these are natural and a sure part of the multi-faceted nature of the human race and this planet.
It is the duality thinking of us versus them, religion against religion and other seperations based on fear and the ego that allow the gods of money and bureacratic centralism to reign.
I believe that migration, diversity and mixing will bring about the consciousness of unity and bring all people closer together, however it will probably cause some degree of suffering and strife before we realise this.
Oneness can contain diversity and ethnic, cultural distinctiveness within it but it cannot contain fear or selfishness because it is love that bringeth together and fear that seperates.
Thankyou once again for your vision and contribution here.
Good quote. Do you live in Britain. Do you think maybe the context might be different here, given that the USA has for most of its history been a nation of immigrants?
ReplyDeleteI think the context applies almost everywhere, Britain and the Netherlands (i live in Amsterdam) have both become nations of immigrants.
ReplyDeleteI think in the future this will apply for most countries and I see it as being the way forward to peace and the realization that we are all equal and one humanity.
It starts with a fair immigration policy.
Amsterdam is nice, I'd like to go there again.
ReplyDeleteWhat does 'fair' mean? Fair to whom?
I definitely agree that we should see our goal as 'peace and the realization that we are all equal and one humanity.'
Though I'd suggest that it might start at a deeper core level of existential realisation than specific, official immigration policies, no?
Another problem is: What do we mean by 'equal' and what do we mean by 'one'?
Best Wishes
Thanks for your reply,
ReplyDeleteI think of a fair immigration policy meaning that people can choose where to live, most of all if they want to move to a country that supports their needs better or where they have a better quality of life this should be allowed. A better quality of life includes basic standards of living and healthcare.
Because on a deep level many people do not actually agree with the above, new people with different ciltures can provide valuable learning lessons and opportunities for individuals and groups to re-evaluate current opinions and deep rooted stigma's concerning culture, religion, racism, fundementalism and other ethics.
In a multi-cultural society there are clashes between groups but there is also a growing understanding and awareness, slowly, very slowly, we begin to realise that we are not that different from each other and that we are in fact the same, at the core. We are human.
I understand "equal" to be: not better or lesser on any level.
If we do not in fact differ from each other (at the core) than we are "one" or in other words there is unity instead of seperation.
I realise that my views may be rather idealistic and maybe quite different from the reality many people are living. I see everyone contributing in some way to the greater good and unity be it in a negative or positive way.
Peace be with you.
Thanks for your reply.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your idealism, and you shouldn't apologise for it. There is not enough of it about.
A worry I have, though, is what if the open hearted, welcoming attitude, allied to a desire to learn from different cultures, which you would like the native populations of Europe to show towards Immigrants from outside of Europe (I am presuming this is what you allude to most centrally); what if this is not shared by those immigrants who want to move to Europe. What then? Shouldnt this open mindedness and desire to learn from the other be reciprocated by them to?
Do you feel that many of the nations of the world, in Asia and the Middle East, for example, are similarly willing to learn from immigrants in their midst? Do you believe, moreover, that Asians and Middle Eastern people are not themselves racist? Or is it only white people who are racist?
I still don't entirely understand what you mean by 'equal'. Do you mean in fact that there is a 'sameness of identity' between the ethnic groups of the world? I feel that many peoples in Asia and the Middle east, not only in Europe and the rest of the world would have difficulties with this, as it would undercut that cultural and ethnic distinctiveness which many non-white peoples take pride in as a source and basis of social cohesion and identity. Isnt there a danger that talk of equality and 'oneness' can potentially be merely an attempt to impose a kind of abstract rootless homelessness upon the families of the world?..such that nobody really knows who they are any longer? And the twin Gods of money and bureacratic centralism, and they alone, dictate.
Nevertheless I share your desires for world peace and harmony and for 'oneness' in that sense. But I do not see that oneness cannot contain diversity and ethnic, cultural distinctiveness within it. And Im not talking about 'multicultarism', which as an ideology is an attempt rather, as I see it, I feel, to dilute and water down, in the name of an abstraction, such localised notions of cultural identity.
God bless and may your brow remain forever calm.
Thankyou once again for you comment and wise words.
ReplyDeleteOften there is no conscious desire to learn, most people do not migrate with a conscious will to gain knowledge or open-mindedness but that does not mean that it doesn't naturally happen. The understanding and awareness is almost 'forced upon us' in the face of change. It will all come to pass because of the mixing of culture and ethnic groups, it's just a matter of time, we can easlily lose sight of the big picture because of a present struggle.
You say: "Isnt there a danger that talk of equality and 'oneness' can potentially be merely an attempt to impose a kind of abstract rootless homelessness upon the families of the world?..such that nobody really knows who they are any longer? And the twin Gods of money and bureacratic centralism, and they alone, dictate."
Isn't this already the case?
I think we are moving towards a global consciousness wherein we notice that borders do not really exist, they are only in our heads. They are man-made lines between countries and races, there will always be cultural differences based on climate conditions, history, mythology etc, these are natural and a sure part of the multi-faceted nature of the human race and this planet.
It is the duality thinking of us versus them, religion against religion and other seperations based on fear and the ego that allow the gods of money and bureacratic centralism to reign.
I believe that migration, diversity and mixing will bring about the consciousness of unity and bring all people closer together, however it will probably cause some degree of suffering and strife before we realise this.
Oneness can contain diversity and ethnic, cultural distinctiveness within it but it cannot contain fear or selfishness because it is love that bringeth together and fear that seperates.
Thankyou once again for your vision and contribution here.